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NYC Psychotherapist Blog

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Showing posts with label Sigmund Freud. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Sigmund Freud. Show all posts

Wednesday, March 2, 2022

Relationships: The Madonna-Whore Complex is Still Alive and Well Today

In his book, Can Love Last: The Fate of Romance Over Time, psychologist Stephen A. Mitchell posits that the Madonna-Whore Complex is still alive and well for many heterosexual men more than 200 years after Sigmund Freud identified this complex. Specifically, men who experience women in terms of the Madonna-Whore Complex either see a woman as being lovable or erotic, but not both.

The Modern Day Version of the Madonna-Whore Complex

According to Dr. Mitchell, Freud initially identified this complex in a 1912 paper he wrote whose title is translated as "The Most Prevalent Form of Degradation in Erotic Life." 

According to Freud, men who experience "psychic impotence," which is sexual impotence that occurs due to psychological reasons (as opposed to physical reasons), often experience this split in how they view women as being either a "good woman" or a "whore."

According to Dr. Mitchell, Freud explains this complex as follows:  Where such men love they cannot desire and where they desire they cannot love.  

So, according to Freud, it's love that ultimately causes a reduction in sexual desire for these men. Similarly, when they experience sexual desire for a woman, they have problems loving her. So, therein lies the split.

In other words, these men, who experience this split as a woman being either lovable or erotic, have difficulty integrating their feelings of love and sexual desire for the same woman.  

Needless to say, this complex has serious implications for committed relationships because relationships require both love and sexual desire.

If these men are in a committed relationship with a woman they love, over time their sexual desire for this woman wanes and the sexual relationship feels dull and boring.  Consequently, over time, they also see their wives and girlfriends as being "respectable" but dull, which adds to their sexual boredom in that relationship.

Love Without Sexual Desire and Sexual Desire Without Love
Love without sexual desire can feel tender and emotionally secure, but it lacks the sexual passion needed in a committed relationship.

Sexual desire without love has passion, but it lacks the emotional intimacy and security needed in a committed relationship.

In order to experience sexual excitement, these men need to go outside their relationship to have an affair with a woman they don't love.  Then they're able to experience sexual excitement because they have enough psychological distance and there's enough sexual objectification to get excited.

The Modern Day Version of the Madonna-Whore Complex
Although in Freud's time women who were considered "madonnas" were seen as saintly and women who were considered "whores" were equated with prostitutes, according to Dr. Mitchell, for many men today the modern day Madonna-Whore Complex is a modified version of the one from Freud's Victorian era.

Dr. Mitchell posits that many men currently perceive the woman they're in love with as being "nice," which is equivalent to the Madonna in the Victorian era. These men eventually experience their long term relationship as dull and boring. This is especially true for many men after their wife has a baby.  Unconsciously, these men's feelings towards their wife changes once she becomes a mother (i.e., a "madonna") because they're unable to see her in an erotic way.

The modern day version of the "whore" from Victorian times is now called a "slut" (although this word has been reclaimed by some women).  These men can develop erotic feelings for women they consider "sluts," but they usually can't feel affection for these same women.  Hence, the split between the "nice woman" and the "slut."

The modern version of the Madonna-Whore Complex, from the perspective of men who experience this dynamic, divides women into "nice women" who men marry and "sluts" who are desperate for sex and who can be eroticized for hook ups.  

After a brief time, these men often look down upon the women they hook up with and return to their "nice" girlfriend or wife to repeat the cycle until they feel sexually bored again and act out sexually once again outside the relationship.

Dr. Mitchell provides many case vignettes in his book to show how the modern day version of this misogynistic split plays out in many men's lives today and how it affects their committed relationships.

The Downside of the Madonna-Whore Complex in Relationships
The most notable downside of this phenomenon for relationships is that the longer a couple is together, the less intense their sex life will be.  

Complicating matters, according to Dr. Mitchell, is an over-emphasis on the need for emotional safety and the pull for the opposite--the need for sexual adventure. He explains that an over-emphasis on the need for emotional safety in a long term relationship can lead to a dulling of sexual passion in that relationship.

So, in these cases, sexual passion is sacrificed for emotional safety which makes sex boring in the committed relationship, and it also makes sexual affairs more tempting because these people will seek sexual passion outside the relationship.

The obvious downside for women is that they're not perceived as whole people who can be loved and sexually desired. Also, as previously noted, this complex has an inherent misogynistic bias against women who are either "nice" and boring or "sluts" and exciting (although, eventually, both the "nice" women and the exciting women are degraded in these men's eyes).

Women Can Also Experience the Split Between the Need For Emotional Safety and the Need for Sexual Adventure 
Although the focus in the Madonna-Whore Complex is on heterosexual men, there are also heterosexual women who experience this split.

A Split Between the Need For Emotional Safety and Adventure

For instance, a wife, who has a strong need for emotional safety can behave in a nurturing and "motherly" way towards her husband.  This, in turn, de-masculinizes her partner, which makes her feel sexually turned off to him because she has placed him in a childlike role.  

This same woman will see her husband as sexually boring and long for sexual passion outside her relationship.  To make matters worse, a woman who experiences this split usually is unaware that she has created it in much the same way as her male counterpart who experiences the Madonna-Whore Complex.

With regard to these women, to paraphrase Freud: Where she loves, she cannot desire, and where she desires, she cannot love.

It's important to note that this type of split is usually unconscious for both men and women.  Also, when the need for emotional safety leads to an individual de-sexualizing their partner, this is also usually unconscious.

It's equally important to note that, although the Madonna-Whore Complex is common, it's not everyone's experience. There are many people who can have committed long term relationships where they don't experience the split discussed in this article. Instead, they can experience both love and sexual passion with the same person.

In my next article, I'll continue to discuss the Madonna-Whore Complex in relationships: The Paradox of Love and Desire in a Committed Relationship.

Getting Help in Therapy
If you want to change how you relate to a romantic partner or if you recognize that you're caught in a split between emotional safety and sexual adventure, you could benefit from seeking help from a licensed mental health professional who has expertise in this area.

A skilled psychotherapist can help you to have a healthier, more integrated relationship where you can have both love and sexual passion in your committed relationship.

So, rather than struggling on your own, seek help in therapy so you can have a more fulfilling relationship.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP, EFT and Somatic Experiencing therapist.

I work with individual adults and couples.

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 or email me.

























Sunday, April 29, 2018

Movies: Lou Andreas Salome - The Audacity to Be Free

Lou Andreas Salome, who was born in 1861 in St. Petersburg, Russia, became one of the few women psychoanalysts in Sigmund Freud's inner circle.

Movies: Lou Andreas Salome - The Audacity to Be Free*

At a relatively young age, she was known for being an intellectual with unconventional ideas for her time.  Throughout her life, she had many intellectual pursuits, including psychoanalysis, and she prized her freedom and spoke up for what she believed in, which was unusual for women in her day.

The movie, Lou Andreas Salome - The Audacity to Be Free, traces her life from early childhood until old age.  Although the title of the movie emphasizes Salome's lifelong pursuit of individual freedom and creativity, it actually focuses on her role as a muse to various famous men in her life, including Rainer Maria Rilke and Friedrich Nietzsche and less on her accomplishments, which were many.

The movie focuses only briefly on her accomplishments as a psychoanalyst during the early days of psychoanalysis and her relationship with Sigmund Freud.  As a psychotherapist who is psychoanalytically trained, I would have liked more of an emphasis on her life as a psychoanalyst, especially considering that a career in psychoanalysis in her day was mostly pursued by men.

In many ways, Salome was ahead of her time with regard to understanding the importance of culture, which we take for granted now.  But in her time, the focus in psychoanalysis was on the patient's inner world, the Oedipus Complex and Freud's psychosexual model of psychoanalysis.

It's unfortunate that such an outstanding psychoanalyst, who was well-known and highly regarded internationally in her time, has been all but forgotten these days, except in some psychoanalytic circles and, even there, her books and papers go mostly unread.

Even though the movie focuses mostly on her personal relationships with men, hopefully, it will arouse curiosity about this accomplished woman who was ahead of her time.

For a more comprehensive understanding of Lou Andreas Salome, I recommend Julia Vickers' book, Lou von Salome: A Biography of the Woman Who Inspired Freud, Nietzsche and Rilke.  Although the title emphasizes her role as a muse to some of the most famous men of her time, it also gives an in-depth exploration of her childhood background, how her background influenced her lifelong intellectual pursuits, her accomplishments, and her need for freedom and equality as a woman.

Salome also wrote her own memoir called Looking Back: Memoirs where she gives her own account of her life.  This book is more of a meditation on her life than a chronological account of her life history.

There is also a book, Salome: Her Life and Her Work by Angela Livingstone, that provides a more of a history of Salome's life.

It's important to remember women psychoanalysts like Lou Andreas Salome and Karen Horney for the important contributions that they made to psychoanalysis and psychotherapy in general.

Getting Help in Therapy
If you have been feeling overwhelmed by your problems, you're not alone.  Help is available in psychotherapy (see my article: The Benefits of Psychotherapy).

Working through your problems in psychotherapy can free you from your traumatic history and allow you to live a more meaningful and fulfilling life (see my article: How to Choose a Psychotherapist).

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my article: The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Psychotherapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.


*Photo Credit: Shutterstock: A romantic Slavic woman in vintage dress (this is not Lou Andreas Salome).