Followers

Translate

NYC Psychotherapist Blog

power by WikipediaMindmap

Monday, August 24, 2020

Relationships: Understanding the Impact of Trauma on Emotionally Unavailable People

In my prior article I began a discussion about people who are emotionally unavailable with an avoidant attachment style.  I'm continuing the discussion about this topic in this article with a clinical vignette that illustrates the impact of trauma and how these issues often affect relationships (see my article: How Trauma Affects Intimate Relationships).


Relationships: Understanding the Impact of Trauma on Emotionally Unavailable People

The Major Characteristics of Emotionally Unavailable People/Avoidant Attachment Style
Before I provide a clinical vignette, here's a recap of some of the major characteristics of emotionally unavailable people.
People who are emotionally unavailable usually exhibit at least some of the following characteristics, including:
  • Steering clear or making attempts to reduce emotional closeness in romantic relationships 
  • Avoiding commitment in relationships, which can be done in a number of ways:
    • Giving mixed signals about being in a committed relationship
    • Stating explicitly they only want to be in a non-monogamous relationship
    • Agreeing to be monogamous in a relationship but betraying this agreement with infidelity (i.e., cheating by having sexual affairs on the side)
    • Labeling their partner as "clingy," "emotionally needy," "wanting too much" and "a nag" when their partner wants to be closer
  • Feeling "trapped" in a committed relationship (if they do make a commitment)
  • Tuning out when their partner attempts to talk to them about wanting to be closer
  • Seeing themselves as being emotionally "independent" (however, this is really a pseudo-independence because it's an unconscious defensive strategy to cover underlying fear)
  • Becoming emotionally distant and aloof during an argument, conflict or other stressful situations
  • Seeking a partner's emotional support in a crisis indirectly by hinting, complaining or sulking rather than being direct in their communication
  • Using an unconscious defensive strategy of trying to display a high regard for themselves while being suspicious, cynical and dismissive of other people's vulnerabilities and what they perceive as "weakness" in other people (this defensive strategy protects a fragile sense of self and feelings of low self worth)
  • Reacting angrily when their partner does not affirm and support their defensive strategy of an inflated sense of self
  • Struggling with an internal critical voice, which is in conflict with their defensive strategy of an inflated sense of self.  This internal critical voice often involves thoughts like:
    • "You're independent. You don't need anyone else."
    • "Don't get too close or you'll be hurt and disappointed."
    • "Why is she (or he) so demanding?"
    • "There are more important things in life than being in a relationship."
    • "She's not good enough for you" or "You're too good for her."
    • "Being in a relationship involves putting up with a lot."
A Clinical Vignette: Relationships: The Impact of Trauma on Emotionally Unavailable People
The following fictional vignette illustrates typical problems people who are emotionally unavailable with an avoidant attachment style can have in a relationship. People with an avoidant attachment style often get together with people who have an anxious attachment style:

John
John met Nina at a mutual friend's party when they were both in their late 30s.  He sensed the chemistry between them immediately and he liked her obvious intelligence and quirky sense of humor.

Three years later, they were struggling to salvage their relationship.  John resented what he perceived as Nina's "clinginess."  He felt she was always making too many emotional demands of him, and he couldn't understand why she couldn't just be happy with what they had in their relationship.  He really didn't like that she was constantly telling him that he wasn't meeting her emotional needs.

Nina felt that their relationship was at a point where it was stagnant and no longer developing.  She would have liked for them to move in together, but John said he needed his space and he wanted to continue to live on his own.  Other than saying this, he refused to talk about the subject any further because he didn't see the point.

When Nina explained that she came from a family where they talked about their feelings and if there was a problem, they would have a family meeting to discuss it, John laughed scornfully about this, "No one had time in my family to talk about feelings. Both of my parents worked long hours and when they got home, they were too exhausted to talk.  My brothers and I weren't coddled like you were.  We had to learn to fend for ourselves and that's what made me the independent person that I am today."

When Nina listened to the stories John told about his family, she was shocked by John's childhood history of emotional neglect, and she was even more shocked that he took pride in it (see my article: What is Childhood Emotional Neglect?).

"When my parents came home from work, we knew not to bother them with our problems," John explained, "because we knew if we did, they would get angry that we were bothering them, and they would tell us to go figure it out on our own. That made us strong and built character."

In contrast, Nina knew that she could always go to either of her parents with anything that was bothering her and they never turned her away.  But the one problem she had in her family was that her parents tended to compare her unfavorably with her older sister, Laura, who excelled academically and who was very popular in school.  As a result, Nina grew up feeling, compared to her sister, she wasn't good enough, which made her anxious, and she was always trying to prove herself to her parents.

She had a similar feeling with John.  She felt John didn't see her as "good enough" and this was why he didn't make more of a commitment to their relationship. It was only after she threatened to leave him that he agreed to be monogamous with her, and she was aware that he only agreed to it reluctantly.  After he made the commitment, he complained to her that he felt "trapped" in their relationship, which hurt her feelings.

She was also aware that John struggled to ask her for emotional support.  Rather than asking directly, he would complain about the pressures he felt at work and the headaches he would get by the time he came home.  She was more than willing to be emotionally supportive, but she never knew when John would accept her support or when he would tell her that her attempts at being emotionally supportive were "too much" and she needed to "back off."

As they approached their four year anniversary together, Nina told John that she felt lonely in their relationship, even when they were together, because he was so emotionally aloof with her.  She finally told him that she wouldn't remain in their relationship unless he got help in therapy. 

At first, John resisted the idea of going to therapy, "I don't need therapy.  No one in my family ever went to therapy." But he also loved Nina and he didn't want to lose her, so after he thought about it for a while, he reluctantly agreed to go to therapy.  But he agreed to it on the condition that Nina would get into her own individual therapy too, which she agreed to do.

Conclusion:
People with an anxious attachment style, like Nina, often get into relationships with people who have an avoidant attachment style, like John. This is an unconscious process where people choose a partner that confirms how they feel about themselves.

As previously mentioned and illustrated in the vignette above, people with an avoidant attachment style often feel that their partner is too emotionally demanding when the partner asks to be closer to them.  In contrast, people with an anxious attachment style often feel they're "not good enough" and unconsciously choose a partner that confirms this feeling through their emotional aloofness.

This contrast in attachment styles usually brings conflict as each person feels misunderstood by the other.

Although Nina's family was more open and communicative as compared with John's family, Nina grew up feeling she wasn't good enough when her parents compared her to her older sister.  This trauma contributed to her anxious attachment style.

Nina's anxious attachment style kept her striving in her relationship with John (and in prior relationships) to try to get more from him emotionally. And when she couldn't get more from him, this confirmed to her over and over again that she was unworthy.

John's family was mostly focused on survival issues, and his parents weren't emotionally available to John or his siblings.  As a result, John and his siblings learned not to seek nurturance or emotional support from their parents, and they grew up thinking they were "independent."  However, their parents' emotional neglect was traumatizing for them, and what they perceived as being independent was really a pseudo independence, a defense mechanism that covered over their anger and sadness about being neglected.

Even though Nina felt deep down that she wasn't worthy of John's love and attention, even she had her limits.  She could see that their relationship was stagnant.  She felt that John had many more problems than she did, but she agreed to attend her own individual therapy so she could have a place to talk about her relationship concerns.

In my next article, I'll explore how experiential therapy can help with the problems in John and Nina's relationship.

Getting Help in Therapy
Everyone needs help at some point in their life.  

If you have been unable to resolve your problems on your own, you could benefit from attending therapy with an experiential therapist.

Working through the obstacles that are hindering your progress will allow you to lead a more fulfilling and meaningful life.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP, EFT and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my article: The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

I am currently providing teletherapy sessions, which is also known as online therapy, telemental health and telehealth (see my article: The Advantages of Online Therapy).

To find out more about me, visit my website:  Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.



























Monday, August 17, 2020

Understanding the Avoidant Attachment Style of Emotionally Unavailable People

There are many misconceptions about people who are considered emotionally unavailable.  These are people who usually have an avoidant attachment style.  In this article, I am focusing on describing this emotionally unavailable dynamic, and in subsequent articles I will elaborate on the early childhood trauma that creates this dynamic and how experiential psychotherapy can help to resolve these problems.


Understanding the Avoidant Attachment Style of Emotionally Unavailable People

The Underlying Problems of Emotionally Unavailable People: Early Family Trauma
As I have mentioned, I'll delve into the effect of early family trauma in a future article, but here's a brief description:

The underlying problems of emotionally unavailable people are rooted in early family dynamics with parents who were abusive and/or emotionally neglectful (see my article: What is Childhood Emotional Neglect?).

The parents' abusive behavior can involve physical abuse and/or emotional abuse with emotional abuse including name calling, criticizing, displaying contempt for the child's need for nurturance and emotional support, and so on.

I will elaborate on the early family trauma, which includes intergenerational trauma, that creates an an emotionally unavailable/avoidant attachment style in my next article.

Relationships With People Who Are Emotionally Unavailable
Typically, people with an anxious attachment style become attracted to people with an avoidant attachment style and vice versa (see my articles: How Your Attachment Style Affects Your Relationship).

It's not that people with anxious and avoidant attachment styles consciously set out to find each other.  These attractions occur on an unconscious level based on each person's early family history where they developed a particular attachment style. These relationships can be fraught with problems.

People who have an anxious attachment style strive to get the people with an avoidant attachment style to pay more attention to them, express their love more or make a greater commitment to the relationship. These attempts are often in vain.

People with an avoidant attachment style often feel impinged upon by their anxious partner. They might label their partners as "needy" and feel that they are always "nagging" them with complaints about the relationship.

Typically, people with an avoidant attachment style don't see themselves as having problems with emotional intimacy.  Instead, they see themselves as being "independent" and "needing space" from their partner so they can do other things.  

Often what they don't understand is that what appears to be "independence" to them is really a fear of being emotionally vulnerable, and this fear is learned at an early age due to family of origin dynamics (see my article: Fear of Emotional Vulnerability).

For men, this is also reinforced by societal pressures to "be a man," "man up" and other toxic cultural distortions about masculinity and what it means to "be a man."  These cultural pressures have contributed to much confusion about masculinity and a significant factor in toxic masculinity (see my article: Feeling the Need to Be "Strong" to Avoid Feeling Your Unmet Emotional Needs).

What Are Some of the Characteristics of Someone Who is Emotionally Unavailable?
People who are emotionally unavailable usually exhibit at least some of the following characteristics, including:
  • Steering clear or making attempts to reduce emotional closeness in romantic relationships 
  • Avoiding commitment in relationships, which can be done in a number of ways:
    • Giving mixed signals about being in a committed relationship
    • Stating explicitly they only want to be in a non-monogamous relationship
    • Agreeing to be monogamous in a relationship but betraying this agreement with infidelity (i.e., cheating by having sexual affairs on the side)
  • Labeling their partner as "clingy," "emotionally needy," "wanting too much" and "a nag" when their partner wants to be closer
  • Feeling "trapped" in a committed relationship (if they do make a commitment)
  • Tuning out when their partner attempts to talk to them about wanting to be closer
  • Seeing themselves as being emotionally "independent" (however, this is really a pseudo-independence because it's an unconscious defensive strategy to cover underlying fear)
  • Becoming emotionally distant and aloof during an argument, conflict or other stressful situations
  • Seeking a partner's emotional support in a crisis indirectly by hinting, complaining or sulking rather than being direct in their communication
  • Using an unconscious defensive strategy of trying to display a high regard for themselves while being suspicious, cynical and dismissive of other people's vulnerabilities and what they perceive as "weakness" in other people (this defensive strategy protects a fragile sense of self and feelings of low self worth)
  • Reacting angrily when their partner does not affirm and support their defensive strategy of an inflated sense of self.
  • Struggling with an internal critical voice, which is in conflict with their defensive strategy of an inflated sense of self.  This internal critical voice often involves thoughts like:
    • "You're independent. You don't need anyone else."
    • "Don't get too close or you'll be hurt and disappointed."
    • "Why is she so demanding?"
    • "There are more important things in life than being in a relationship."
    • "She's not good enough for you" or "You're too good for her."
    • "Being in a relationship involves putting up with a lot."
Conclusion
The avoidant attachment style of emotionally unavailable people develops due to early trauma in a family where normal childhood emotional needs were either dismissed, discouraged or punished.

Usually, these parents are not consciously trying to hurt their children. Instead, it's more a matter that they did not have their own emotional needs met when they were children. They might not know how to be emotionally available to their children or it might frighten them because it puts them in touch with their own emotional vulnerabilities that make them feel "weak."

These children were traumatized and hurt when they attempted to get their emotional needs met.  As a result, they grow up to be adults who either avoid emotional attachments or try to find ways to minimize them.  They usually do this out of fear rather than out of any sense of maliciousness.

Adults with an avoidant attachment style develop unconscious defensive strategies to manage their emotional needs.  These strategies are an attempt to keep from getting hurt the way they were hurt as children.  

The internal critical voice, which develops in early childhood, represents an internalization of the explicit and implicit messages from parents who discouraged emotional closeness and who might have been abusive.

People with an avoidant attachment style often get into relationships with people who have an anxious attachment style.  This is usually unconscious on both people's parts and it confirms what they believe about themselves and relationships.  

For people with an anxious attachment style, who are usually striving mightily to get the person with an avoidant attachment style to be closer, being with an emotionally unavailable person confirms that they are "unlovable" and undeserving of being with someone who can meet their emotional needs.  

Even though they might be unhappy with the emotionally unavailable person, they often feel compelled to stay in the relationship.  In fact, they might stay in this type of relationship for many years trying to convince the other person to love them and get closer to them.  They have a blind spot  they defend against seeing.

For people with an avoidant attachment style, who are trying to distance themselves from their anxious partner, their partner's anxious attachment style confirms an overall negative and cynical view of relationships and people in general.  

Since relationships with people with an anxious attachment style confirms their worldview, these relationships are compelling to them.  Even though they might complain that their partner is "too needy" and "demanding," they often remain in the relationship but complain about it.

In many cases, it's not just their perception that they are with emotionally demanding people--they actually choose people who are really emotionally dependent, clingy and demanding.  Choosing people in this way is mostly unconscious. 

Similar to people with an anxious attachment style, even though emotionally unavailable people might complain a lot about their partner, they often remain for long periods of time.  

If they do leave, their defensive structure does not allow them to grieve the end of that relationship.  Instead, they will dismiss their grief on an unconscious level so it does not come into their awareness because if they allowed themselves to feel the hurt and pain of the end of the relationship, it would trigger the hurt and pain they felt as children, which would be overwhelming.

Instead of allowing themselves to feel the pain of a breakup, they often move on (rather quickly) to be with someone else or to "play the field" with many romantic or sexual partners.

Depending upon the person, this can come across as being callous and uncaring.  But, as previously mentioned, an unwillingness to feel emotionally vulnerable often covers up a fear of getting hurt because they were hurt and traumatized as children.

When partners of people with an avoidant attachment style learn to understand the origins of these problems, it helps them to feel more empathetic and compassionate to their partner.  This does not mean that they should stay indefinitely in a relationship where their needs are not being met.  However, it might allow them to be more willing to work things out in couples therapy if both people are willing to do it.

As mentioned earlier, I will elaborate on this topic in future articles:
See my article: Relationships:The Impact of Trauma on Emotionally Unavailable People

Getting Help in Therapy
If you're struggling with unresolved problems, you're not alone.

An experiential therapist can help you to overcome the problems you are unable to overcome on your own.

Rather than struggling alone, seek help from an experiential therapist.  With help, you can free yourself from your early history so you can lead a happier life.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP, EFT and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my articles:  The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

One of my specialties is helping clients to overcome trauma (see my article: What is a Trauma Therapist?).

I am currently providing teletherapy, which is also known as online therapy, telemental health and telehealth (see my article:  The Advantages of Online Therapy).

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.

































Sunday, August 16, 2020

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase: Part 3: Getting Help in Therapy

In Part 1 of the topic, I introduced the subject of romantic and sexual obsessions and the thrill of the chase.  As I discussed in that article, the thrill of these obsessions involves a dopamine high that occurs in anticipation of "catching" the person.

In Part 2 I expanded on this subject by discussing the first fictional vignette about Ed from Part 1 and  how experiential therapy helped.  As a continuation of this topic in this article, I'm focusing on the second fictional vignette about Jane.

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase

Clinical Vignette: Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase:
The following fictional vignette is a continuation of Parts 1 and 2 and will illustrate how experiential therapy can help to resolve these problems:

Jane
In Part 1, I presented a fictional case about someone named Jane, a single woman in her late 30s. Although the vignette is fiction, the problems involved are real and common to many people who have romantic and sexual obsessions.

To Recap:
Jane wasn't interested in men who were interested in her.  The men she was interested in were emotionally unavailable and either only minimally or not interested at all in her. She was obsessed with these men.  She would spend most of her time ruminating about the latest man she was obsessed about.

During a six month relationship, the man she was dating told her from the start that he wanted to see other women.  However, as part of her usual obsessive pattern, Jane refused to accept this and she kept trying to convince him that he should date her exclusively.  She refused to hear him when he told her that he didn't want to be monogamous.

In the end, he stopped seeing Jane because of her constant complaints that he wasn't meeting her emotional needs and her refusal to accept that he wanted a non-monogamous dating relationship with her. 

After numerous experiences like this, Jane's self esteem plummeted.  When she attempted to date men who were interested in her and emotionally available, she wasn't attracted to them.  She didn't feel any chemistry with them--there was no "spark" (see my article: Why Are So-Called "Bad Boys" Irresistible to Many Women? Brain Chemistry Might Be Part of the Answer).

Eventually, she wondered whether she would ever be in a healthy relationship, and she complained to her friends about her romantic experiences (see my article: Unhealthy Relationships: Bad Luck or Poor Choices?).

The Story Continues: Getting Help in Experiential Therapy
After a while, Jane's friends got tired of hearing her ongoing complaints about her relationship problems, and they suggested she seek help in therapy.

During her initial therapy consultation, Jane's therapist recognized that Jane tended to be attracted to emotionally unavailable men who had an avoidant attachment style (see my articles: How Early Attachment Bonds Affect Adult RelationshipsHow Your Attachment Style Affects Your Relationship and Understanding How an Avoidant Attachment Style Affects Your Relationship).

After hearing Jane's dating history and family background, the therapist explained to Jane that she was confusing the uncertainty and chaos in these relationships with love and passion. She explained that this is a common problem for many people, especially people who have an anxious (insecure) attachment style.

Jane's therapist also helped her to understand the connection between her family history with a father, who was in and out of her life throughout her childhood, with the excitement Jane felt for emotionally unavailable men who had an avoidant attachment style. She explained to Jane that people with an anxious (insecure) attachment style, like Jane's, are often attracted to people with an avoidant attachment style and vice versa.

Working Through Early Trauma in Experiential Therapy
Since her therapist was an experiential therapist, she recommended using EMDR therapy (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing therapy) to process Jane's early attachment trauma rooted in her family history (see my articles: EMDR Therapy: When Talk Therapy Isn't Enough and Experiential Therapy, Like EMDR, Helps to Achieve Emotional Breakthroughs).

Transforming From an Insecure to a Secure Attachment Style
Subsequently, Jane's therapist used Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy, also known as AEDP, to help Jane work through her attachment issues so that she could develop secure attachment style (see my articles: What is AEDP? Part 1 and Part 2).

As is typical in AEDP, the transformation in Jane's attachment style from insecure to secure (or better known when it is developed later in life as "earned secure") occurred over time through her relationship with her therapist.

The work in therapy was neither quick nor easy, but Jane stuck with it because she could feel herself changing in this experiential, "bottom up" approach to therapy (see my article: What's the Difference Between a Top Down vs a Bottom Up Approach in Therapy).

Over time, as Jane worked through her traumatic family history and developed a secure attachment style, she was no longer attracted to emotionally unavailable men.  She learned to see the "red flags" early on and she didn't waste time trying to convince men with an avoidant attachment style to love her.

Eventually, she met John, who was emotionally available and who wanted to be in a serious relationship.  She was surprised to discover that not only was he interested in pursuing a relationship with her, but she felt physically and emotionally attracted to him.

She realized that she no longer wanted or needed the dopamine high of chasing after unavailable men.  After several months of dating, Jane and John decided to move in together and they started talking about getting married.

As Jane continued in her experiential therapy, she felt much more confident and deserving of being loved (see my article: Overcoming the Emotional Pain of Feeling Unlovable).

When she looked back on her previous relationships with men who were emotionally unavailable, she felt no excitement at all.  Instead, she felt sad that she wasted so much time pursuing these men.  Mourning the time she lost in her life by pursuing these relationships was also a part of her therapy.

Conclusion
As I mentioned in my previous articles on this topic, romantic and sexual obsessions usually get worse over time before they get better.  Since addictive behavior tends to get worse without help, it often takes more of the same addictive dynamic to get the high--even when it's a dopamine high.

To overcome the obsessive and addictive behavior involved with romantic and sexual obsessions, it's important to overcome the underlying issues that are at the root of the problem.

These underlying problems usually have their roots in an early history of trauma, as shown in the above vignette about Jane (see my article: How Trauma Affects Intimate Relationships).

Experiential therapies, like EMDR therapy and AEDP, as well as other types of experiential therapy, help clients to get beyond an intellectual insight of their problems.

These experiential therapies have a bottom up approach (as opposed to regular talk therapy, which has a top down approach). They help clients to transform on an emotional level.

An emotional transformation is significant because we now know that transformation occurs on an emotional level and not solely based on intellectual insight.

In addition, experiential therapy helps people to stop equating chaotic and confusion in a relationship with love and passion.

Getting Help in Therapy
If you have been struggling with unresolved problems on your own, you could benefit from working with an experiential therapist.

Rather than struggling on your own, you could work through your problems so that you can lead a more fulfilling and meaningful life.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP, EFT and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my article: The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

One of my specialties is helping clients to overcome trauma (see my article: What is a Trauma Therapist?).

I am currently providing online therapy, which is also called teletherapy, telemental health and telehealth (see my article: The Advantages of Online Therapy).

To find out more about me, visit my website: 
Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.






























Friday, August 14, 2020

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase - Part 2: Getting Help in Therapy

In Part 1 of this topic, I began a discussion about the psychologically and physically addictive problem of romantic and sexual obsessions.  I also provided two clinical vignettes to illustrate two different but related problems involving these obsessions and the thrill of the chase (see my article: Understanding Sexually Addictive Behavior).

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase

In this article, I'm focusing on the first vignette from Part 1 about the fictional character, Ed, to delve deeper into this subject and show how experiential psychotherapy can help people with romantic or sexual obsessions to overcome their problem (see my article: Why Experiential Therapy is More Effective Than Regular Talk Therapy).

In a future article, I'll focus on the second vignette from Part 1 about the fictional character, Jane, where the symptoms are similar but the outer manifestation of the problem is different.

Clinical Vignette: Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase: 
The following fictional vignette is a continuation of Part 1 and it will illustrate how experiential psychotherapy can help:

Ed
In Part 1, I presented a fictional case about someone named Ed, a married man in his mid-40s.  Although the vignette is fiction, the problems involved are real and common to many people who get caught up in romantic and sexual obsessions.

To Recap:
During five years of marriage, Ed had numerous sexual affairs.  Typical for people who become obsessed with the thrill of the chase, Ed got a dopamine high from these obsessions and the anticipation of "catching" the women he was obsessed about.

Even though he loved his wife and he didn't want to jeopardize his marriage, Ed couldn't stop chasing after women--even after one of the women contacted his wife out of anger and sent his wife a videotape, which she secretly recorded without Ed knowing, of one of her sexual encounters with Ed. She also told Ed's wife about his numerous other sexual affairs.

When confronted with the videotape, Ed admitted to his wife that he had been having sexual affairs throughout their marriage. He felt ashamed of his behavior and very sad that he hurt his wife. After he admitted his infidelities, he vowed to his wife and to himself that he would stop chasing other women. Although his wife was hurt by Ed's betrayal, she forgave him when he promised her that he would stop having affairs.

Ed struggled to keep his promise for a short time.  However, he felt himself being dazzled and tantalized by the attractive women he met when he wasn't with his wife, and his struggle turned out to be too much for him to bear. He gave in to his obsessions during a time when he felt bored, and he resumed having secret extramarital affairs with women he met in person as well as on the dating app, Tinder (see my article: Married, Bored and Cheating Online).

The Story Continues:
As time went on, Ed became increasingly obsessed, especially once he began using Tinder to meet women.  Realizing that he could meet hundreds of women online, who were also only interested in hooking up for sex, fueled his obsession.  He rationalized his behavior by telling himself that he was upfront with these women about his marital status so they knew what they were getting into. He also rationalized that he wasn't hurting his wife because he believed he could do a better job of hiding his affairs and what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her.

What Ed didn't realize was that his addictive behavior was not only driven by seeing attractive women--he was also now responding to the pings he heard from Tinder whenever a woman responded to his request for sex. The sound of the pings were now paired in his mind with sexual conquests, and he was unknowingly also getting a dopamine high just from the sound.

One night while he was out to dinner with his wife with his phone next to him on the table, Ed tried to resist responding to the pings from his phone while he and his wife were talking.  But the urge to look at his Tinder responses became overwhelming and he glanced at his phone several times.

Telling his wife that the pings were emails from work, Ed told her that he had to call his office. Then he went outside to look at his Tinder responses.  Once outside, Ed couldn't wait to look at the responses he received.  As he looked through the responses, he felt giddy with excitement as he saw the sexually provocative pictures from these women.  The dopamine rush he experienced was like electricity going through him, and he had to suppress an urge to laugh from the sheer thrill of it all.

He was especially thrilled that one of the women who had initially resisted his responses was now asking for sexually explicit photos of him which, as usual, he was only too willing to provide.  He could feel the thrill of pressing send to this woman's personal cellphone number as he sent her several nude pictures of himself and he requested that she do the same.

Ed was so caught up in responding to his Tinder requests that he didn't realize how much time had gone by while he was standing outside the restaurant.  It was as if he had fallen down a rabbit hole where he lost awareness of time and place.  By the time he looked up, he was shocked to see his wife, Megan, was standing next to him and looking over his shoulder at his Tinder account.

On the taxi ride home, Ed attempted to apologize to Megan, but she refused to talk to him.  By the time they were back in their apartment, he was desperately trying to make amends with her, but she told him to move out to a hotel until she had time to think about what she would do next.  Then, what she said next shocked him, "At least we don't have children!"(see my article: Your Spouse Cheated on You: Should You Stay or Should You Go).

This remark hurt Ed deeply because he and Megan had been trying to have a baby for the last two years.  They both loved children and it had been their dream to have a baby. Prior to this, they had even talked about going for fertility treatment.  Now, Ed felt his marriage to Megan and any possibility of having children was lost.

During the next few weeks, while he was staying at a nearby hotel, Ed reached out to his wife, but Megan refused to take his calls.  He didn't blame her for being upset.  He knew he hurt her again by continuing to have sexual affairs and breaking his promise to her.  He blamed himself and he wished he could go back in time to undo the pain and anger he caused his wife.

Ed also felt deeply ashamed.  For the first time in his life, he considered whether he was in the grips of addictive behavior.  He felt so upset and overwhelmed that he disabled his Tinder account, he stopped seeing the women he had been having affairs with, and he blocked their numbers on his phone.  He had no appetite for chasing women and the thought of it only made him feel more ashamed and angry with himself.

Several weeks later, Megan agreed to talk to Ed at their apartment.  Ed took this as a hopeful sign, but as soon as he arrived, Megan told him that she decided she wanted a divorce.  Upon hearing this, Ed was shocked and he felt like the floor had dropped out from under his feet.  She told Ed calmly that she was very hurt and she didn't trust him anymore (see my article: When Trust Breaks Down in Relationships).

She said she knew he loved her and she believed him when he first told her he would stop having affairs.  But, she said, all that changed when she discovered that he was continuing to have affairs and she knew now that his problem was much deeper than she had realized before.  She also told him that she had a consultation with a divorce attorney and she had a one-way ticket to fly home to her family in California in two weeks.

When he heard what Megan had to say, Ed felt like his life was over.  Nothing mattered to him if he couldn't be with Megan.  He told her that he realized he didn't deserve it, but he begged Megan to give him another chance.  He promised to get into individual therapy to overcome his problem and he begged Megan to come with him to couples therapy.

During the next week, Megan continued to refuse to give Ed another chance.  As she said she would, she flew out to California to stay with her parents temporarily.  She and Ed talked on the phone, but she was only willing to talk about practical matters like their apartment in Manhattan where Ed was now living alone.  She refused to attend couples therapy with Ed, but she told him she thought he should get help for himself in individual therapy, "Don't do it for me.  Do it for yourself."

Getting Help in Individual Experiential Therapy:
Not knowing what else to do, Ed sought help in individual therapy.  Although he felt desperate to get Megan back, he knew it was pointless to try to persuade her.  Initially, his motivation for individual therapy was to let Megan know that he started therapy so he could convince her to take him back.  But as he continued to attend his therapy sessions and he learned about himself, his external motivation turned into internal motivation to do it for himself.

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase: Getting Help in Therapy

Over time in therapy, Ed began to understand his obsessive and addictive behavior with women.  He realized that he was obsessed with women from the time he was a teenager.  He never thought much about his behavior and his inability to remain faithful before.

When he was a teenager, he told himself, "Boys will be boys" and he used this rationalization to cheat on his girlfriends.  Then, when he got older and he was married, he rationalized his infidelity by telling himself that he wasn't harming her by having affairs because Megan didn't know about it and it didn't change how much he loved her.  Even after Megan found out and he lost his initial resolve to stop chasing women, he thought all he needed to do was to get better at hiding his affairs.

But now that he was on the brink of losing his marriage, Ed began to make connections between his infidelity and his father's infidelity.  Even though his parents never talked to Ed about his father's numerous extramarital affairs, Ed heard them arguing about it late at night.

Ed felt deeply ambivalent about his father's behavior.  Part of him hated his father for hurting his mother.  But another part of Ed admired his father for being "a ladies' man."  And when, by chance, as a teenager, he saw his father in his car with a beautiful woman, Ed felt a rush throughout his body at the thought of being able to have affairs with multiple beautiful women at the same time.

Working Through Early Trauma in Experiential Therapy
As Ed recounted his family history to his therapist, he realized for the first time that he often felt lonely and lost as a child. As the middle child of three children, he longed for his parents' attention.  But they focused on their older son, who excelled academically and in sports, and they doted on his younger sister, who was spoiled by his parents.  They compared Ed unfavorable to his older brother and he often depressed by his parents' emotional neglect (see my article: What is Emotional Neglect?).

As time went on, Ed could see that his feelings of low self worth were temporarily alleviated by his sexual conquests.  But he realized that after the chase was over with each woman, he no longer felt the initial thrill. He also realized that after a while he needed to have numerous sexual affairs in order to feel that boost to his mood, and he could see the addictive pattern.

His therapist recommended EMDR therapy, also known as Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy, to work through the underlying issues that fueled his addictive behavior, including the emotional neglect he experienced as a child (see my article: Experiential Therapy, Like EMDR, Helps to Achieve Emotional Breakthroughs).

Prior to EMDR therapy, Ed had always thought, "I love women," but as he delved deeper into his problems, he realized that he also had hostile feelings towards women, especially his mother whom he experienced as cold and emotionally withholding.  He realized over time that with each sexual conquest, he was attempting to prove to himself that he was a lovable person (see my article: Overcoming the Emotional Pain of Feeling Unlovable).

A few months later, as Ed explained to Megan what he learned about himself and how he was working through his sexually addictive behavior.  He revealed to her that he no longer felt a compulsion to see other women.  After she thought about it for a few days, Megan agreed to come back to New York City to attend couples therapy with Ed.  She told him that, although she didn't trust him, she still loved him and she wanted to see if they could salvage their marriage.

Getting Help in Emotionally Focused Therapy (EFT) For Couples
When Megan returned to New York, she moved back into their Manhattan apartment to live with Ed again and entered into her own individual therapy to deal with the hurt, mistrust and anger she felt.  They also began seeing a couples therapist who used Emotionally Focused Therapy for couples, also known as EFT (see my article: How EFT Couples Therapy Can Help Your Relationship).

Putting the Pieces Back Together and Salvaging a Marriage:
Over time, Ed and Megan began to put the pieces of their life together. It took a while for Megan to trust Ed again.  As part of their agreement, she had access to his phone, his texts and all his computer accounts, and Ed remained faithful to Megan (see my article: Broken Promises - Surviving Infidelity).

Conclusion
Romantic and sexual obsessions usually get worse over time due to the physically and psychologically addictive behavior involved.  Since addiction gets worse without help, over time it takes more of the addictive behavior to get the same high--even when the high is fueled by dopamine.

People usually rationalize their addictive behavior, but these rationalizations often fall apart as the consequences to their behavior bring them back to reality. 

To overcome any addictive behavior, beyond stopping, it's important to understand and resolve the underlying issues that fuel the addiction.  These underlying issues often involve psychological trauma (see my article: How Trauma Affects Intimate Relationships).

Experiential therapy, like EMDR therapy, AEDP, Somatic Experiencing, clinical hypnosis, and EFT, which all take a bottom up (as opposed to a top down) approach, is are much more effective in getting to the root of the problem than regular talk therapy (see my article: What's the Difference Between "Top Down" and "Bottom Up" Approaches in Therapy).

Getting Help in Therapy
Overcoming romantic and sexual obsessions takes a commitment to work through the underlying issues involved in therapy.

Developing intellectual insight, while important, usually isn't enough to help people to overcome addictive behavior.  These problems require experiential therapy that helps people to shift on an emotional level and not just on an intellectual level.

If you're struggling with problems that you have been unable to resolve on your own, you owe it to yourself to get help from an experienced psychotherapist so you can free yourself from your addictive patterns to live a happier life.

About Me
I am a licensed New York City psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP, Somatic Experiencing and EFT therapist (see my article: The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.
























































Thursday, August 13, 2020

Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase - Part 1

Romantic obsessions might be funny or entertaining in movies, but they can be very painful and self destructive in real life.  If your pattern is to chase after people, you know just how painful it can be--and yet, you might have a problem changing your behavior on your own (see my article: The Connection Between Obsessive Love as an Adult and Unmet Childhood Emotional Needs and Understanding Sexually Compulsive Behavior).

Romantic Obsessions: The Thrill of the Chase
When life seems boring and routine, "the thrill of the chase" can seem sexy and exciting.

The real thrill in chasing someone isn't about "catching" them--it's about the pleasure of the dopamine high you get from the anticipation.

The more uncertainty there is, the more exciting it is. This is especially true when someone is pursuing a person who is either not interested or comes across as highly ambivalent (see my article: What Makes So-Called "Bad Boys" So Irresistible to Woman? Brain Chemistry Might Be Part of the Answer).

The surge of dopamine can reach euphoric levels, which fuels the obsession and the chase even more.  This behavior can become highly addictive as a person continuously looks for the next dopamine high.

Clinical Vignettes: Romantic Obsessions and the Thrill of the Chase
The following fictional vignettes illustrate how these dynamics often work for both men and women:

Ed
Even though Ed was happily married and he loved his wife, he couldn't resist flirting with every attractive woman that he met. Throughout his five year marriage, Ed, who was in his mid-40s, had dozens of sexual affairs.  Many of the women knew that he was married, and they didn't care.  Like him, they were only interested in having a casual sexual relationship with him (see my articles: The Allure of the Extramarital Affair and Married, Bored and Cheating Online).

Initially, when he met an attractive woman, he was filled with euphoric feelings in anticipation of having sex with her. If a woman didn't respond to his flirtation at first, he would become obsessed with chasing her. He would try to find ways to be where he knew she would be, talk to her, make her laugh and win her over.

Since Ed was very attractive, more often than not he would succeed in winning women over.  But after having sex with a woman several times, his interest would wane, and he would be on the prowl again looking for the next attractive woman and the next high.  This pattern would continue over and over again.

Eventually, one of the women, who wanted something more from Ed and felt used by him, contacted his wife to tell her about the sexual affair. She sent Ed's wife a video she took (without Ed knowing) that was unmistakable.  She also told his wife about many of the other women Ed had affairs with over the years.  

When his wife confronted him with the video, Ed admitted he had numerous sexual affairs over the years.  He was ashamed and felt remorse for his behavior.  Although his wife was deeply hurt, she forgave Ed when he promised her that he would change.

After that, Ed didn't want to hurt his wife again, and he didn't want her to leave him.  So, for a while, he just barely managed to control his obsession for women.  But after a few months, he felt bored, and even though he knew he was risking his marriage, he couldn't resist pursuing attractive women, and he went back to having affairs (see my article: Coping with Addiction: Boredom as a Relapse Trigger).

Jane
Jane, who was in her late 30s, often complained to her friends that she usually wasn't interested in men who were interested in her.  She realized that she tended to become obsessed with men who were emotionally unavailable and who often weren't interested in her.  Even though this made her feel miserable, she felt she couldn't help herself. The more detached and emotionally aloof men were, the more obsessed she became with them. 

Even though her friends tried to warn her about the men that she was obsessed with, Jane said she couldn't stop herself.  She would chase after these men by calling them, texting them and trying to get them to go out with her.  

Just thinking about one of these men all day long would make her feel high. If she dated a man who showed initial interest in her but who ultimately didn't want to continue to see her, Jane would try to persuade him of all the reasons why he should continue to see her--even when she knew he was dating someone else.  

During her last six month relationship with a man who told her that he wanted an open relationship, she tried to force him into making a an exclusive commitment to her.  No matter how many times he told her that he didn't want to be monogamous, she didn't want to hear it.  In the end, when he broke up with her, he told her that he had been upfront with her about wanting to date other women and he couldn't stand her constant complaints that he wasn't meeting her emotional needs.

After numerous similar experiences, Jane's self esteem continued to plummet.  She tried to date men who were interested in her, but she just wasn't attracted to them.  She began to feel a sense of despair that she would ever be in a reciprocal relationship.

Conclusion
A tendency to pursue romantic or sexual obsessions is high risk, addictive behavior.  Even when there is so much at stake, including the erosion of self esteem or the risk of losing a loving spouse, the dopamine high involved can prove too much for many people to resist.


Getting Help in Therapy
If you're struggling with addictive, obsessional behavior in your relationships, you're not alone.

An experienced psychotherapist can help you to overcome self destructive patterns that are ruining your life.

Rather than struggling on your own, seek help from a licensed mental health professional so you can lead a healthier, more fulfilling life.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, EMDR, AEDP and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my article:  The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

Currently, I am providing teletherapy sessions, which are also known as telemental health, online therapy or telehealth sessions (see my article: The Advantages of Online Therapy).

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during business hours or email me.
























Monday, August 10, 2020

What is Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) and How Does AEDP Heal Trauma - Part 2

In Part 1 of this topic, I began a preliminary discussion about Accelerated Experiential Dynamic Psychotherapy (AEDP) and how it works.  In the current article, I provide a clinical vignette to illustrate how AEDP works.

AEDP Heals Trauma
As mentioned in Part 1, AEDP was developed by Dr. Diana Fosha, and AEDP is based on many different disciplines, including:
  • attachment theory
  • affective neuroscience
  • trauma research
  • developmental research
  • mind-body/somatic therapy
  • emotion therapy
  • phenomonology (the study of subjective experience)
  • transformational studies
Clinical Vignette: AEDP in a Therapy Session
The following clinical vignette is a composite of many different cases where AEDP is used to heal trauma:

Ted
Before Ted sought help from an AEDP therapist, he had been in many different types of therapy over the years.  He explained to his AEDP therapist that, although he developed intellectual insight into his problems in his prior therapies, nothing changed for him on an emotional level (see my article: Healing From the Inside Out: Why Insight Isn't Enough to Heal Trauma).

He said he was still struggling with crippling shame that had a negative impact on his personal life as well as his career (see my article: Healing Shame in Therapy).

Ted explained that he was about to turn 45 and he was worried that he would never overcome the shame he had since childhood.  He said he decided to try AEDP because a friend had a very good experience with it.

His AEDP therapist started the consultation by being empathetic and welcoming, which helped to put Ted at ease.  As part of AEDP, she noticed how Ted's facial expression, gestures and body language conveyed the shame he said he was struggling with for many years.

As Ted got more comfortable in the session, he told his therapist, "I'm surprised that I can feel so comfortable with you so quickly.  Usually it takes me at least a few weeks to feel comfortable enough to open up."

Part of the AEDP therapist's role is noticing and emphasizing the somatic markers for positive feelings.  So, to amplify Ted's feeling of comfort, his therapist asked Ted where he noticed that feeling of comfort in his body (see my article: The Body Offers a Window Into the Unconscious Mind).

Ted took a moment to notice where he felt the sense of comfort in his body and then he put his hand over his stomach, "I feel it in my gut."  In response, his therapist asked Ted if he would be willing to stay with that sensation of comfort, and he nodded.

Ted closed his eyes and allowed himself to relax into that sensation of comfort, and his therapist noticed that his whole body relaxed.  Then, after a minute or so, Ted said that along with that feeling of comfort, he was now beginning to feel sad because he recognized that it was so rare for him to feel this way.

Ted's AEDP therapist knew that this is a typical response during the initial stage of therapy for people who have experienced trauma.  The positive feeling often brings up sadness when people compare the positive feeling with the emotional deprivation they experienced in the past.

After a few moments, the feeling of sadness subsided, and Ted's therapist observed that he had just gone through a wave of emotion.  She explained that emotions usually come in waves, similar to waves in the ocean with a surge, a peak and then an ebbing away of emotion.

Ted was able to return to the feeling of comfort and a sense of openness. He said he was usually anxious and guarded in most situations, but he didn't feel that way in this therapy session (see my article: The Creation of the Holding Environment in Therapy).

By the end of the session, his therapist explored with Ted what it was like to have this experience of comfort, which was so rare for him.  Ted said it helped him to feel safe in the session--a feeling that he rarely had anywhere.

Then, his therapist, who understood that AEDP is a relational experience between the client and the therapist and observed Ted's openness, asked Ted what it was like to have this sense of comfort and to have it with her.  Ted responded that he was surprised and pleased. He said he hadn't expected to feel this way with her, especially during an initial therapy consultation.

This type of exploration is called "metaprocessing" in AEDP.  Part of the value of doing metaprocessing is that it brings it brings together both right brain (emotions) and left brain (putting words to feelings) processing.  Another part is that, as previously mentioned, it emphasizes the importance of the therapeutic relationship between the client and the therapist.

Over time, Ted talked about shame he felt as a child with a highly critical father.  His therapist helped Ted to develop the internal resources to deal with the trauma work they would be doing on his shame.  All the while, she continued to pay attention to Ted's emotions and she titrated the work so that it wouldn't be overwhelming for Ted.

During one AEDP session, Ted talked about feeling angry with his father for shaming him at a big family gathering when he was five years old after Ted spilled juice on his clothes. He remembered that his father got very upset and yelled at him for being "so stupid and clumsy." He said this memory was typical of many memories where his father shamed him.

He also remembered feeling so deeply ashamed that he wanted to run and hide.  In addition, even at that young age, he sensed how intimidated everyone was, including his mother, by the father's temper and bullying behavior.

As part of helping Ted to feel a positive experience he could use as a resource, his therapist asked Ted to remember a time when he was feeling proud of himself.  She told him that it could be from any time in his life.

In response, Ted thought about that for a few moments, and then he said he felt proud on the day he graduated from college.  He told his therapist that he graduated with honors, and one of his professors, who was kind and encouraging, helped him to adjust to being away at college.  He recounted how seeing that professor on graduation day made him feel so cared about and proud.

His therapist recognized that Ted was ready to do a "portrayal" (imaginary work, similar to Gestalt chair work) with regard to his anger towards his father, and the professor as well as his sense of pride on graduation day would be good internal resource for Ted.  So, she asked Ted to stay with those positive feelings.

After a few moments, Ted was able to identify a feeling of calm and confidence in his gut as he thought about these positive memories.  His therapist asked Ted to stay with those positive feelings and, after a few seconds, Ted said he felt these positive emotions getting stronger and he noticed that they were expanding from his gut to his throat.

His therapist asked Ted if he would like hold onto that sense of calm and confidence, the image of that professor, and imagine talking to his father in that earlier memory. Ted said he would be willing to do this, so he went back into that memory where his father was berating him at the family gathering.

His therapist helped him to stay within his calm and comforted adult self to look at his humiliated child self, and Ted responded, "I'm looking at that child and I feel sad for him.  I'm also feeling protective towards him.  He didn't deserve to be treated that way.  He was only a child."

With the image of his professor in his mind and the positive emotions he was feeling as his adult self, Ted imagined himself confronting his father, "Stop yelling at him. He's only a child."  He imagined that his father was so surprised and speechless because no one ever confronted him in this way.

Then, Ted imagined taking his child self in his arms hugging him and rubbing his back.  As he did this, his therapist asked Ted to switch his consciousness to being his child self to feel what it was like to receive this comfort and love, and Ted said that, as his child self, he could relax into that hug and he felt protected (see my article: Having a Dialogue With the Different Parts of Yourself).

Afterwards, his therapist helped Ted to process what this experience was like for him, and Ted said he never felt this way before.  He said that he felt comforted and calm, and he also felt happy and strong to be able to confront his father.  He told his therapist that it wasn't nearly as scary as he thought it would be, especially because he imagined coming from a confident stance with his supportive professor with him.  He also said he felt his therapist's presence, which also helped him during this portrayal where he confronted his father.

His therapist explained that doing parts work, which is working with the various aspects of himself, including the adult self, child self and other parts of himself, is part of AEDP (see my article: Understanding the Different Aspects of Yourself That Make You Who You Are).

Whenever his AEDP therapist did parts work as part of a portrayal, she made sure that Ted was coming from an internally resourced, strong, confident place within himself first.

AEDP therapists know that clients often felt alone when they were going through the original trauma, so, as therapists, they need to be present and resonate with clients as they are processing trauma to undo that feeling of aloneness.  This allows the client to have a new experience with the memory of trauma so that they no longer feel alone with it.  This is part of reworking the trauma.

Gradually, Ted overcame the crippling shame that held him back in his personal life and in his career.  Not only did he have insight into his problems, but he also felt the healing benefits of AEDP as an experiential therapy.

Conclusion
The goal of AEDP is not just to help clients to develop insight--although insight is important.  The goal of AEDP is to help clients to transform and heal.

The vignette above illustrates some ways that AEDP therapists help clients to heal.

As mentioned in my prior prior article, AEDP is an evidence-based, cutting edge, experiential therapy.  It incorporates many different approaches, and AEDP therapists work in an empathetic and dynamic way.

AEDP interventions are designed to help the client to access a feeling of strength and calm by using positive memories and resources (like the positive memories in the vignette above) as a lens through which to approach traumatic memories.

Getting Help in Therapy
If you have been struggling to overcome problems, you're not alone.  Help is available to you (see my article: What is a Trauma Therapist?).

The AEDP Institute has a directory of AEDP therapists in the US and all over the world.

Rather than struggling on your own, seek help from an AEDP therapist so you can live a more fulfilling life.

About Me
I am a licensed NYC psychotherapist, hypnotherapist, AEDP, EMDR, EFT and Somatic Experiencing therapist (see my article: The Therapeutic Benefits of Integrative Therapy).

I work with individual adults and couples.

I am currently providing teletherapy sessions, which are also known as online therapy, telemental health and telehealth (see my article: The Advantages of Online Therapy).

To find out more about me, visit my website: Josephine Ferraro, LCSW - NYC Psychotherapist.

To set up a consultation, call me at (917) 742-2624 during regular business hours or email me.